CTF_Casino - Rethought

[UltimateSniper]

I've always considered casino as a possibly uneven map and more and more occasions of winning on red team and losing on blue team have told me which side of the map i really wana be on... But what happened today just made me a little worried about it being considered as an even map in NFBL.

We started as a 5v5 scrim, with some s5 and others on the red team, me and the rest of 2L2D were on blue. My team was very fast to attack, having 3 players in the red base for most of the time. However, after 1 or 2 captures i saw something really dumb which shouldnt happen...
an enemy player p-jumped straight through our base and back to his flag capturing in a few seconds, little we could do to stop it as, being on blue team, the weapons are rather spread out so it takes a while to get the ample amount of firepower for defending. This p-jump through our base happened several times every 2nd or so flag they captured, i left at 3-9 out of disgust (i was also hosting the server).

This cannot happen to the red team however, as they have a much more compact base with stairs into it from all directions so and p-jumping has to be stopped whilst picking up the flag which is the best time for defenders. The pheonix base also has all the weapons and spawns are closer together and to the base. As well as that, in the MI6 base, there are 2 sets of 2 armor plates which are easy for attackers to pick up whilst escaping with the flag. The pheonix side however, has 2 armor plates next to the flag and another 1 on either side but of couse, an attacker can only go 1 way out...

I am wondering if, for a while, the NFBL could closely monitor match results coming from casino in respect to the teams and maybe even temporarily remove the map to see how clans do against eachother in mirrored maps.

Please post your comments and i would prefer if people were to read the argument ive typed here and not just say that im whining because this has been growing in my mind for a while...

[.[FuR].Fey]

You are right, it's a little bit uneven. I think we have to change the weapons a little beat, and put the armor at some other place (the 2 plates @ sniper down, put them at the piano or something) And i think that we have to put the commando @ the flag somewhere else and put all the other weapons (sniper,shotgun,raptor) (like in red base) near flag. Then it would be more even!

[|-CSS-|~*$upp@kill@*]

the fact that the sides are not even in casino doesn't make it unfair. When you def right then you are still in advantage on the blue side (you can go in only 2 ways..) Red base you can go in from 3 sides...

It's not weird that an enemy jumps straight into your base when you got 3 ppl on full attack... If no1 stops him in the hall, yes then even me, the most noobisch pjumper in nf history, can get the flags.
The fact that you lost 9-3 is not because you were blue and the enemy was red. The fact is that each side got his own tactic.. This won't change with other guns.

The sides are not even in Casino but I think that makes it a fun map. The blue side shud be easy to defend with sprayweapons. But well everybody had his own favorite side in casino.

Why would you change the gameplay of the No.1 scrimmap in NF?

[-+-{MI-6}-+-OO7]

I think NFBL should be using only symmetrical maps.

[Guest]

suppa is 100% right.


you really really really cant blame the map when 2l2d loses vs style5

[j4]

i think ur a retard because i can pjump the exact same way in red base theres enough rails to be in and out in 2 secs, plus, its easier to pjump from red base to blue base so after uve escaped from red base ur gone, but going long from blue base slows u down because u cant pjump all the way back to red flag giving the enemy time to catch up, i personally dont believe any sideis fairer than the other because of how i play. and about the armor plates, theres 2 sets on both sides so i dont see how that is a problem. the only REAL advantage i see that makes red side better is the fact that u can defend flag @ balcony when both teams have the flag, but besides that its pretty fair

edit: btw remove casino from nfbl because its boring as ####

[UltimateSniper]

i strongly disagree with suppa, sorry but it do ...

the idea of FAIR play is that the maps should be exactly even, it was 5v5 so i dont really understand ur point... we had 2 ppl defending

the red base has the flag inset in its own small room which you cant p-jump in and out of... if the blue flag were to be placed closer to the balcony, it would still allow people to p-jump through it and straight out the base

i say its unmirrored and that only the mirrored maps should be allowed as CTF in NFBL, none others and others agree... ive noticed that red deffinitely does have an advantage over blue team, we played in the same map as red team last night and won even thought my aim was messy... i think that only the DM version should be allowed, its impossible to make an unmirrored map completely even

[j4]

you can pjump in and out of red base...and plus its either to pjump from red base to blue base so an attack on blue team will have an easier time getting back to blue base if he makes it up the stairs. On red team though, if you attack and go straight through blue and go down long, you get stopped by that little area and others can chase you the other way and beat you to red base, pretty much blocking you.

And you won on red side when you played because the ntrls were WAY worse, it had nothing to do with the sides.

[Guest]

the idea of FAIR play is that the maps should be exactly even

ctf_knox isnt exactly even, the stairs are only on one side at the bottom so its a shorter route to the shoes for one team.
ctf_romania isnt exactly even, theres different obstacles around the flags, and theres a box on one side on the entrance to the middle that can block people.

i say its unmirrored and that only the mirrored maps should be allowed as CTF in NFBL, none others...............its impossible to make an unmirrored map completely even

yes its unmirrored, obv. its not impossible, its just more complex, and takes more consideration. im not saying birdy put in consideration when he made the map, but maybe he just got lucky. the sides are even, they each have their own disadvantages and advantages that weigh themselves out.

the better team always wins, regardless of sides.

and yes, on both sides you can p jump through flag and keep going.

Why would you change the gameplay of the No.1 scrimmap in NF?

[UltimateSniper]

i dont think you people get the point of having mirrored maps, casino is completely unmirrored... the stairs in knox arent so much of an issue as the rest of the map is mirrored and the red team have a set of stairs on their side of the map too.

Unmirrored maps should be withdrawn from NFBL use as they ARE NOT EVEN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MIRRORED... how many times must i say this? in casino you may be slightly better then the other team but still loose because of disadvantage in terms of the layout of ur side of the map

http://i38.tinypic.com/1zpqhk6.jpg <-- thats one of the only times ive felt comfortable playing on mi6

[batman :(]

[quote]Mackan
http://009.web-fun.net/forum/post-11680.html#11680

Balanced between the Phoenix and MI6, mirrored maps are prefered
every ctf map that shipped with nf is 97% mirrored for a reason...why should mod maps be an exception?

[|-CSS-|~*$upp@kill@*]

i strongly disagree with suppa, sorry but it do ...

the idea of FAIR play is that the maps should be exactly even, it was 5v5 so i dont really understand ur point... we had 2 ppl defending

the red base has the flag inset in its own small room which you cant p-jump in and out of... if the blue flag were to be placed closer to the balcony, it would still allow people to p-jump through it and straight out the base

i say its unmirrored and that only the mirrored maps should be allowed as CTF in NFBL, none others and others agree... ive noticed that red deffinitely does have an advantage over blue team, we played in the same map as red team last night and won even thought my aim was messy... i think that only the DM version should be allowed, its impossible to make an unmirrored map completely even

I don't get why an ctf map should be 100% mirrored. Isn't it a nice bonus for the attacking clan to chose the best side for their tactic?

In my opinion maps don't need to be mirrored, both sides need to be fair. In casino the sides are fair when you use the right tactic.. When you watch to carpark, then I agree the sides are complete unfair cuz the map is not mirrored but I don't really care which side to play in casino.

I think that you should ignore the fact that map is not mirrored and just enjoy to play in the best scrimmap of NF ;) Why would you remove a map from the league when people love to play NFBL in it?

[UltimateSniper]

fair == mirrored
fair != modified unmirrored DM map

[|-CSS-|~*$upp@kill@*]

fair and mirrored are 2 different things...

[batman :(]

let me rephrase it into two questions...

1. how can an unmirrored map be fair?

2. how can a mirrored (walls, weapons, armor, spawns, etc.) map be unfair?


the only way to make an unmirrored map remotely fair is to give stuff (weapons and armor) to the disadvantaged team...mind you, the advantaged team can uses those resources to their advantage while on the offensive...ultimately, the teeter totter is always swayed in one way or another just because the map is not mirrored...that is not very hard to see